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Tuesday, 31 January 2006
error message
Mood:  quizzical
There's something else wrong with my code page (I'm the "loop" guy two questions past; still doesn't loop for me): When I open the index.html page to edit, the error message pops up, not once, but twice, "stack overflow on line 0." I tried every possible help site, no answer. Our dear Angelfire techs advised me in so many words to learn HTML. Does anybody have any idea what this could be, or how I could repair this? Thanks a lot. Lou.

Posted by mt/ollgf at 12:00 AM EST | Post Comment | View Comments (55) | Permalink | Share This Post

Tuesday, 31 January 2006 - 12:40 AM EST

Name: tom

There was previous discussion on the Blog in April 2004,
concerning the 'stack overflow' issue:


When you arrive at the above URL, simply proceed to the Items dated:
April 12th & April 13th.

Tuesday, 31 January 2006 - 3:18 PM EST

Name: Lou

Thanks, Tom. There indeed was a discussion of this issue in April 2004, and I read every entry. Sadly, no solution or answer was found. An Angelfire tech (?) seems to promise a fix there, but it never happened. I've approached Angelfire service again, waiting for an answer. All the best, Lou.

Tuesday, 31 January 2006 - 6:24 PM EST

Name: cw

This doesn't have anything to do with stack overfow but while checking your site in IE and Netscape 7, I noticed the difference in display between browsers is dramatic. One browser centers everything on your index page the other left aligns everything so that nothing is centered. Most likely due to some slight errors in your html.

Your centering tag <center> should come before the header tag <h1> of your main header at the top of the index page. Now looks like this

should look like this


also some color coding is not quite right. One browser displays your chosen colors the other defaults to my own browser prefs. Color hex numbers are missing the # before the color hex number

<font color=”0033CC”> should be

<font color=”#0033CC”>

hope that helps

ps- html errors like this might have something to do with your nonlooping sound file

Tuesday, 31 January 2006 - 10:09 PM EST

Name: Lou

Dear CW: I am ever so grateful for your pointing out my html errors. I was not aware that the page did not display correctly in another browser - I only have IE. I made all the corrections, hoping this will remedy the situation. However, I still can't get it to "loop," and still get the error messages, "stack overflow at line: 0." All the best, Lou.

Tuesday, 31 January 2006 - 10:53 PM EST

Name: cw
Home Page: http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/00/37/index2a_page2

Lou- Both page layouts are the same now in both my browsers- both pages are centered. Good job! Your site is still interesting from a browser issue though.

The page looks good in both browsers now, but there is still something interesting about it that I don't know if I can account for or explain. In one browser your page background color is a royal blue, like the color I'd associate with links. The other browser displays a robin's egg blue or turquoise.

Both pages are attractive so I wouldn't worry about it too much. Just puzzles me why that is when viewed here. I use Mac so it might be just an OS issue. Might even be because the color you chose as a background color - #CCFFFF - is not "websafe" even though I thought websafe has been a dead issue for a long time. The link above from webmonkey explains websafe colors if what I'm saying sounds greek :)

Tuesday, 31 January 2006 - 11:22 PM EST

Name: mamagoo

Lou, both of your songs loop for me when using IE....

so I don't know why it doesn't for you.... maybe try a a java script code like this, although it shows a player width and height the player will not show if you leave the hidden = true.....

<!-- This script and many more are available free online at -->
<!-- The JavaScript Source!! http://javascript.internet.com -->
<!-- Begin
if (navigator.appName == "Microsoft Internet Explorer") {
document.write('<embed src=yoursong.mid autostart=true hidden=true volume=100 width=100 height=60 loop=true>');
if (navigator.appName == "Netscape") {
document.write('<embed src="yoursong.mid" loop=true width=100 height=60>');
// End -->

<!-- Script Size: 0.64 KB -->

I am on broadband, but I don't see why it would make a difference in the the loop ...but for sure it is playing over and over for me....so...I really don't know why it would not for you....

Tuesday, 31 January 2006 - 11:26 PM EST

Name: mamagoo

or try this and see what happens:

<embed src="yourSong.mid" width=145 height=55 autostart=true loop=true hidden=true>
<bgsound src="yoursong.mid" loop=true>

Tuesday, 31 January 2006 - 11:41 PM EST

Name: mamagoo again

a few more hints:
try moving the files to your main directory instead of image directory and change the url to it in the code.... and rename this file without the dot after lourdes....use a dash or underscore


on the second page why don't you put the code higher in the body and not below the counter....

Tuesday, 31 January 2006 - 11:47 PM EST

Name: cw

another thought- seems weird to me that you can't loop sound because your embed code looks fine. It seems more logical to me that it's something on your end since the few of us that checked your pages don't seem to have a problem. Could you have competing sound playing applications set up in your browser or on your pc such as WMP and RA or QT?. If that looks like pursuing to Mamagoo, she could help you more with that for Windows than I could.

A suggestion- Try downloading another browser just for testing purposes. Download a recent mozilla, firefox or netscape7 browser. You can have more than one browser on your pc if you have the drive space for it. Most newer pcs have more than enough room. Having multiple browsers won't interfere with the browser you use now. That can be kept as your default. Having other browsers available for site testing purposes is good. In addition, I know Netscape comes with a free page builder that isn't so hard to learn to use. I'd be willing to help you with the learning curve privately. It might make site building easier for you instead of hand coding as it looks like you're doing now. Firefox may come with the same page builder, too.

Wednesday, 1 February 2006 - 12:29 AM EST

Name: tom

On the Angelfire color page @ URL:
the color #CCFFFF is deemed 'websafe'.

Wednesday, 1 February 2006 - 2:48 PM EST

Name: Billy

Why shouldn't you learn HTML?

Writing to tech support to have them teach you how to write code isn't their job. If something's broken you should e-mail them, not because you don't know how to do something.

Especially with the way the internet is today. A simple search on the internet will yield thousands of results to help you write the proper code to make your loop work.

Just my .02. Reading a tutorial goes a long way,

Wednesday, 1 February 2006 - 8:12 PM EST

Name: dalleh

I looked at the code using netsacpe the colors code look like this

you have extras before and after the code it suppose to be like this


<body bgcolor=?#CCFFFF?>


<body bgcolor=#CCFFFF>


<font color=?#0033CC?>OUR LADY OF LOURDES


<font color=#0033CC>OUR LADY OF LOURDES

Wednesday, 1 February 2006 - 10:16 PM EST

Name: cw

no, I think you are mistaking the problem, though your point is well taken. The sound code the poster is using is fine. It works for everyone that visits except him, What the problem is has more to do on a specific pc end I think- specific to the poster.

Any thoughts? It's not just a matter of reading a tutorial about web building IMHO. When things get goofy on a pc, I've read some people are finding an easier way to deal with it- buy a new computer! Much easier and less costly in some situations supposedly than troubleshooting and restoring a hard drive. That's an outrageous and wasteful approach in my mind but just illustrates how confounding pc problems can be.

If you have any pc/sound file troubleshooting suggestions for this poster, please post them. Problems like this make me very thankful for my Mac. We usually don't need no stinkin' tech support lol :) You plug it in and it works.

Wednesday, 1 February 2006 - 11:41 PM EST

Name: Lou

Friend: I did not ask the techs for any html code, I reported an error message for which I did not find an explanation after searching many websites. The loop issue is one thing (the code is correct), but the error messages are another. I was told it's a Java script conflict - I do not have Java script in my code. All the best, Lou.

Wednesday, 1 February 2006 - 11:44 PM EST

Name: Lou

Dear Dalleh: In my book, the color hex code needs quotation marks before and after it. What appears as ? on your site, shows as " on mine. Thanks. All the best, Lou.

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 11:58 AM EST

Name: cw

Actually, Lou, dalleh may be on to something. Is it possible you pasted that code from a word processing program like MS word? I ask because there is sometimes an issue with the " character inserted by MS- (called a curly quote I think), it can play havoc with some scripts and possibly plain html code like yours.

Without going into a long explanation, each character has it's own byte code written for a particular application or operating system. There are many different ways of coding the text characters but only one standard text coding format is used for the web and that's called ascii text. Those curly quotes written by MS are not among the characters all computers understand and the coding can get garbled somewhere between a pc and the net and back again.

It may also be a coded hard return at the top of your index page code in non ascii coding, ("error at line 0 has me thinking that"). It may have come along with your pasted html. Text written by a pc is not anything like that produced on a typewriter which makes a simple mechanical mark on a piece of paper. Each character typed on a pc must have a unique byte code. Even spaces are coded. This text code differs between computers and computer programs. That is why ascii format is the standard on the web to enable all pcs to read "from the same page" so to speak.

What I would do- copy your html (source code) from the live problem page and paste into Notepad. You must use Notepad- a plain ascii text editor. Make the edits including removing any space at the top of the page code. When adding quotes around code fragments either a double or single quote can be used in plain html. Use single quotes (' or an apostrophe) as they ususally cause less problems.

Save the Notepad file with a .html extension. Or save as .txt and change the .txt to .html before uploading. Then try to edit the new page from your webshell to see if it was coding in the old page that was causing the problem. Might work, might not but your source code is short on the page you're having problems so might not take too long to troubleshoot.

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 12:17 PM EST

Name: cw

Lou- also if you try this- once the source code is pasted to notepad, completely remove and rewrite the <html> tag at the top of the page. The Line 0 error means the error is at the very top of the page.

grasping at straws lol. Please forgive me :)

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 12:26 PM EST

Name: cw

Lou- another suggestion- error alerts can be turned off in IE through preferences. In my Mac IE browser it's under the prefs for "web content"---> "active scripting" ---> "show scripting error alerts". Uncheck the box. See if the page can be editted with that unchecked. it's possible.

But the script alerts can also help you locate the error by clicking on "source" when the error alert box appears. The error will be near wherever the code is highlighted in the source, sometimes the error comes right before it.

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 12:26 PM EST

Name: mamagoo

Lou I don't see thing real awful going on with your code. how do you write the code in a text editor like notepad?
it's funny you only get the overflow when your editing.....

maybe just copy paste all your html to notepad, set the font to timesNewRoman then copy and paste it back to your angelfire page.

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 12:32 PM EST

Name: cw

no, you don't want any font setting- let it default and let Notepad do it's thing. A font face is formatting and will destroy the ascii text (unless the font selection in Notepad is just for your benefit i.e. how the text appears to you when displayed in the Notepad file on your own pc.)

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 12:47 PM EST

Name: mamagoo

I know what your saying doodle it's just that some of his color code quotes have curls so I thought if he used the notepad default font which is usually timesNewRoman it might help...

but your right let notepad do it's thing.....

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 12:54 PM EST

Name: cw
Home Page: http://validator.w3.org/docs/errors.html

I knew you knew that mamagoo but just didn't want Lou to misunderstand :).

Lou- I found this page via a google search that might explain what I tried to say a little better. It explain's why you and dalleh see things somewhat differently. See #139: non SGML character number X

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 12:56 PM EST

Name: cw

OT- Had to laugh out loud mamagoo. The warning signs are there. We're getting that way again lol.

Watch out Lou! I think both mamagoo and I have chosen you as our next victim. We love this kind of stuff and is what we both do when left to do *our* own thing. Hang in there with us. Eventually we'll get this figured out for you.

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 3:32 PM EST

Name: mamagoo

well see, cw....LOL
line 139 did mention
The validator has found one of these undefined characters The character may appear on your browser as a curly quote,lol

I hope Lou comes back it sounded like he thought 'you....' guys were pickin' on him too much about his html...LOL

it looks like he followed thru ok on most of things there....you should see my page in the validator...whew..I'm in deep trouble..lol

Lou good luck with that site, just take cw's advice about using the proper html editor, when it comes to copy and paste and writitng code, that is very important....
boy those MAC people are fussy....LOL

Love the midi tunes your playing....which reminds me, what is the default player that you are using for the IE browser? have you installed another player since you noticed you don't get the tune to loop anymore?
somtimes it takes over as default without you knowing it......I have not come across a player, however, that would not let the embedded tune loop, but stranger things have happened...

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 4:36 PM EST

Name: cw

I like those midis too, if only for the amount of sound gotten from a mere 1KB or so of file size. They pack a lot of wallop for the file size. Those 4MB file sized .mp3 users should cry.

lol- no it's not a Mac issue. That page I sent you to is validation according to the W3C- the World Wide Web Consortium whose purpose is to develop standards for the net so that all computers/browsers can communicate with each other. It is widely recognized and it's standards (really 'suggestions') are increasingly being adapted by new browsers such as mozilla and the like and probably that new IE7 beta Mike mentioned in another post. It is helping to decrease friction between browsers as in the once famous browser wars.

The development of ascii text was originally created for the simple newsgroups that were all that was available not that long ago. From there we've evolved into modern html and all it can do. Ascii text is the cornerstone of all html.

It's a hard concept to understand, I think, because when someone types a text character in a pc application, it looks like the text character typed. But what it takes to produce that character (it's byte coding), may differ drastically from one application to another, even on the same pc, and especially from one operating system to another.

On the net, everyone needs to be on the same page about how even simple text characters are coded (by the computer and the application that coded it).

Lou I do hope you come back. I'm going to try and redo your page code and upload it to my AF account here. I will post the link when I'm done so you can view my page. You could then save it from your browser menu (save page as) (as html) and try uploading to your account and see if it can be opened and editted from your web shell. If it works then you'll know it was something in your code causing the stack overflow error.

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 5:15 PM EST

Name: cw
Home Page: https://www.angelfire.com/folk/dollhouseprintables/olol-

Lou- a quickly redone index file for you. When viewed, the images will not display on my page for you or anyone else because I did not rewrite the paths to the files. They are relative paths as written so only point to the account the html is located in.

I only copied your code and put it into my text editor ( like Notepad but for Mac) then did a global find and replace to replace a few likely offending characters. There were a few curly quotes that needed replacing. Like Dalleh, my text editor could not understand them so used a strange character as a replacement.

As another test- I "did" rewrite the file path for your midi to point to it's full http" location at your account. You should hear it when viewing my page. It is the only thing other than the previously mentioned characters that I edited. Does the sound loop for you on my page?

If you want to give it a full test- save my page from your browser via the "save as" thing I mentioned above. Then upload to your account using your webshell's upload function. The images should display once the page is uploaded to your site. Then see if it can be opened and edittied in your webshell withpout the stack overflow error.

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 5:43 PM EST

Name: mamagoo

very nicely done cw...I hope it works for Lou...

cw, you forgot to mention to Lou to chop out the angelfire ad and banner script.....Lou doesn't need that....LOL....

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 6:29 PM EST

Name: folk/dollhouseprintables

thanks mamagoo- but took me all of 40 seconds lol.

Oh Rats! I am a crashtestdummy!!! You made a really good point I didn't think about - the ad code will come along with Lou's saved code. Lou- don't save my file. I will upload it to my ad free acct at tripod orpost it as a direct link to a .txt file here. You can then just rename it with .html instead of .txt on the end of the file name and uplosd.

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 6:53 PM EST

Name: cw
Home Page: https://www.angelfire.com/folk/dollhouseprintables/olol-

Lou- Link above is to the source code of the same redone html page I posted earlier but uploaded as .txt. The text can be highlighted and copied off my live page and pasted directly into notepad. Save it in Notepad replacing .txt with .html

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 6:56 PM EST

Name: mamagoo

yea your not in kansas anymore, crash..ROFL

if lou had a free site he really would have gotten a stock overflow.....with the double or scraps of script from those ad's....LOL
we might as well be at dallea's forum, it feels like we are PM'ing each other today....!


Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 7:12 PM EST

Name: mamagoo

cw, your's is still viewing as a web page:
do you think this would be better?

or this one:


Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 7:15 PM EST

Name: being a magooo again

left out my directory...gee wiz:



Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 7:21 PM EST

Name: cw

Yes, lol, not in kansas anymore ..... but I think we're both "Movin' to Montana" :)

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 7:22 PM EST

Name: mamagoo

rofl again....

of course I know what you did...LOL...just call me crash dummy now......dah.....I'm okay the worlds all wrong....LOL

isn't this fun...!

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 7:40 PM EST

Name: mamagoo

hee hee, looney ward for me in Montana....
but i do have to say that in IE your txt page is viewing as web page....
in Netscape it's viewing correctly as text...

that is why I jumped to conclusion I did, but then I thought well you meant for him to save as: text page that looks like a web page then he could give it the html extension and have no ad code.....LOL
I do that sometimes,
my browser uses notepad to view 'source code' as default editor, and I can save source code as .html and have a pre-made web page....

do you thing this 35 post thread will get somebody's attention...LOL

see ya later I'm going home now, I'm hungry and tired....!

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 8:00 PM EST

Name: cw

lol whatever. Too many crash tests today. My head hurts lol. I don't have time to check your page right now but will later.


Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 9:00 PM EST

Name: Lou

Hi, mamagoo: I truly appreciate all the effort and interest you are showing re. my issue. Am going to print out everything and work on it AS SOON AS I HAVE THE TIME! Right now, I'm a bit under time pressure, so it will have to wait. - BTY: I do not have ads on the website. And I did install a Quicktime player recently, in addition to Windows Media Player, but I thought I had taken care of the default player thing. Anyway, all the best! Lou.

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 9:07 PM EST

Name: Lou

Dear CW: I never expected that amount of interest and engagement with that "simple" error question. Thank you! What irks me is the fact that the code as it is (more or less) right now, worked fine without error messages, and looping all right, up to about two weeks ago. Then something must have happened. I'm going to pursue your advice as soon as I have some free time. BTW: I did not copy/paste any code, always wrote it manually. I've approached Microsoft and expect a tech answer soon (?). In the past, on another occasion, they were really helpful and thorough, wouldn't give up until they had solved the bug at that time. All the best! Lou.

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 10:27 PM EST

Name: tom

RE: "do you thing this 35 post thread will get somebody's attention...LOL"

I would say that it is getting lots of attention.

There is much valuable internet information being
shared, along with the friendly banter, of Kansas, the heartland of USA, and Montana the gateway to the great northwest.

It's great to see people doing what they enjoy. It is
also contagious.

I found a really nice political map of the USA here:

As you can see on the above-mentioned map, Canada is depicted as a great barren snow-filled landscape, running from the state of Maine to the State of Washington. It is also known as the breeding ground for various predatory large birds, which feed on the plentiful fish farms of the grand state of Minnesota.

All those issues aside, we are reasonably good neighbours.
You can tell we are [a little] different, from the way we spell neighbour.

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 10:27 PM EST

Name: cw

Lou- no thanks needed or expected. You must have missed the part where I said mamaG and I thrive on these things. As far as I'm concerned, it's a learning experience for me as I continue to explore html and web building.

You make a good point about recent display changes.... but have you done any edits in the time just before you first noticed it and now?

The sound player conflict between players you have loaded to your pc deserves pursuing in my opinion as a possible reason for your non-looping sound file. The sound files you're using are incrediblty small -very good job there!- so should play and loop easily for everyone in my opinion. Something is wrong somewhere for you. The embed code looks fine and the redundant code added for older IE browsers (bgsound=) should have your file playing easily for you in IE. No one else has a problem but you it seems. That points to a problem on your end in my mind. I will have to turn you over to Mamagoo who does windows for further troubleshooting down that path. I'm relegated to the toilet cleaning here lol :)

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 10:36 PM EST

Name: tom

Just wanted to add something about [our] spelling:

I remember, some years ago, scratching my head for
quite a few minutes, trying to figure out why the following
code would not work: <font size="2" colour="#xxxxxx">

BTW, I agree with your comments regarding the benefit
of 'universal' codes, which are recognized by all browsers and other software. That would be a major step in the right
direction. I also agree, nobody wants any more browser wars....

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 10:47 PM EST

Name: cw

Stay infected Tom :) This is how I personally learn html- by troubleshooting other's problems.

I count the internet among man's greatest creations; up there with the printing press, penicillin and flight, lol. The present abiity for incredibly fast global communication and it's future potential is mind boggling to me. "Beam me up, Scottie" can't be too far off I think :)

Are you from CA? I love the small portions of CA I have visited- mostly the eastern provinces. If from CA, just how do I order coffe at Tim Horton's so I don't sound like an American tourist?

Thursday, 2 February 2006 - 11:23 PM EST

Name: dalleh

learn spanish

Friday, 3 February 2006 - 12:01 AM EST

Name: cw

lo Me gusto albondigas!

Friday, 3 February 2006 - 1:11 AM EST

Name: tom

Hi CW,

I'm in Montreal, the French-speaking Capital of North
America, although my Mom hails from Massachusetts.

RE: Tim Horton's

I guess that the items are listed on the wall menu, like at MCDonalds. Just give the cashier the number and you'll have no problemo.....

I agree that the Internet is a wonderful invention.
It is folks like your good self, Mamagoo, Dalleh, the Angelfire-Lycos team, and so many others, that help to make it so great.

Of course, we must also remember Sir Tim Berners-Lee. He is now head of the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.

PS: LOL {after putting in such a nice plug for Angelfire/Tripod, perhaps they might consider installing a ROBO-SPAM deterrent, such as a manually typed code, which must be submitted before posting in the Tripod HTML Gear Guestbooks.] Bravenet is using it...and it works!!!

Just a thought :-)

Friday, 3 February 2006 - 12:43 PM EST

Name: Lou

Dear CW, mamagoo, and maybe others: Eureka! (Greek by Archimedes, "I found it!") - yes, I was able to fix ONE issue, the missing loop. I have Windows Media Player AND Quick Time Player on my computer. Grasping at straws, I checked the "file list" in WMP, and low and behold (Bible speak...), there was "midi" files checked as default for WMP!!! "They" did that, sneaky folks. I unchecked it, so now it plays in Quick Time, and IT LOOPS FOR ME! One down. I also double checked the color hex codes, corrected a few """ (curly codes?) that looked slightly different. Does that issue work now properly in your browsers, colors I mean? So, just the error message, "stack overflow at line:0" remains. Maybe I'll get some good inspiration, eventually I'll find an answer to that issue, too. Until then, all the best, and THANK YOU FOR YOUR PLEASANT WEB COMPANY! Lou.

Friday, 3 February 2006 - 6:17 PM EST

Name: mamagoo

Haleluia! guess we can't call you the "loop guy" anymore....LOL glad you found the answer to that one, Lou...
I must say, though, that I've never come across WMP not allowing a tune to loop in a browser. I will have to check out the settings. ... wmp is my default player...and IE is default browser, it's that darn QT player that takes over everything....! LOL
I need QT when I'm using mozilla and boy oh boy it's a stinker to temporarily set QT as default because it defaults to my IE browser then also. and it's a hassel going back and forth....

Maybe your browser was confused then for that to happen, but like I said stranger things have happend....but by golly when a code says 'loop' it had better loop! LOL

now you need a lasso to 'hoop' the other problem....
It may very well be a bug in your directory, because I uploaded your index page to my webshell and I did not get that stack overflow error.....and there is nothing I can see in your html that would warrant that....

causes I have seen is left over or duplicate code from ad-banners but you don't have ad's and banners....

try removing the "counter.superstats" script, temporarily, just to see if that could be it,....
other then that, I don't know.
I hope support will get in there and get this fixed for you.....

Friday, 3 February 2006 - 7:42 PM EST

Name: cw
Home Page: http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Animals/GiantPandas/

Yes Eureka!! Lou, your page displays equally in both my Mac browsers now... but more amazingly- the page background color is totally different than the 2 different colors displayed between IE and Netscape7 before you replaced those curly quotes. Those curly quotes are powerful stuff lol. I like all of three of the colors I've seen but now at least you've got the page displaying the same in both my browsers.

That error on Line0 points to a problem from the start.... Did you replace all the characters of the html tag <HTML> that begins your source code as I suggested earlier? Right down to the enclosing brackets? It sounds odd, but if you haven't done so, try it. I've had a bad <HTML> tag or 2 in the past from copied code that caused javascripts to fail. It has often been that first character or L bracket of the html tag. After deleting the original tag and rewriting the code in an ascii text editor like Notepad usually helped in my own situations. Yours may not be the same kind of problem as mine were, but might share the same cause.

If you can't work on your page at all on your current browser, then download one of a different type like mozilla and it's kin if you're now using IE.... or vice versa download IE.

Try turning off the alerts from your browser, too. I posted how to do that somewhere in the jungle back there. If you lost or can't find that info, someone will repost it for you here. Just ask.

mamaG- in answer to something you said in another comment = I'm almost certain you don't have to use QT as your default .midi player in mozilla. That's configurable, or is at least in NS7 so would assume mozilla was like it or better. It should be in your browsers prefs under helper apps. You can assign any application to any format of your choosing. Assign midis to WMP and any other formats you want it to play instead of being assigned to QT. Check what formats that QT is now assigned and just be careful not to create conflicts between the 2 players where both are assigned the same file format(s) to open. Remove the format from QT then assign it to WMP.

I have both QT and WMP as helper apps in Netscape7 and it works flawlessly. I've been watching the panda cub grow at the National Zoo on pandacam and could not do that w/o WMP. (Check out the little guy. He's cute! Link is above). Anyway, I don't remember it being a big problem to set up anything in my browser when adding WMP.

Saturday, 4 February 2006 - 12:07 AM EST

Name: mamagoo

It's not only the war of browsers it's the war of media players. I have always used WMP as my default computer player and browser plugin. I cannot live without it...LOL

but anyway, yes I do have Netscape set up to use my default player but that only works if the music or movie is streamed or downloaded. then it will play in WMP.

but Netscape 'only' uses QT to play 'embedded sounds' and hiddden background midi and wav...etc...
so that is when I have to go to QT preferences to set the browser settings to "Mime" hence file types like midi and wav etc...'BUT' by browser it means all browsers...so now IE is using QT now too....I hate that! lol....
it does not have a choice of netscape browser only(at least I can't find it and I have been thru this dillema many times thinking there is something I'm missing...
default player for browsers means all browsers...

if I open a page in netscape that has hidden background music I don't hear it or even know it's there, and if it's page showing a player I get the blank plugin finder...so that is when i need to go to QT to set it temporarily like when I was viewing Lou's site for troubleshooting....

but being I am IE user I can't live without my wmp being the default(I don't like QT and I never have and the same goes for RealPlayer they want to be boss and I don't like that....LOL...and besides to upgrade without bugging you and ad's it needs to be payed license, at least wpm is free and no ad's.... but the need for all three players is a necessity on the web now-a-days....but give me WMP any day..maybe that is why I don't use netscape all the time......
oh well, but you know many people don't even know what player is playing their browsers background music. and when something doesn't work all of sudden you have to start thinking what the most recent installs are.....

have you noticed the install on the new QT7 update? if you let it go, it even takes over your default jpeg
viewer....wow...that is the last application I would use for viewing my pictures....LOL...it's the war of software applications period you really have to watch anything you install anymore on a windows OS, and choose to use custom install so that you know what is going to change and if you wnat it that way....

so if by what i said here and you think there is something i' missing in the preferences, cw, I will glady like to know because this has bugged me for years...LOL...

Saturday, 4 February 2006 - 7:58 AM EST

Name: tom

Hi Folks,

Lou, I visited your page @ URL: https://www.angelfire.com/mt/ollgf/ with my Firefox browser, and received the following message:

"Additional plugins are required to display all the media on this page."

And, when I click on "Install missing plugins", I see that they wish me to
download the following:

"Apple Quick Time"

Of course, I didn't install the plugin; however, I guess that Mozilla wants us to use QTP....

I don't listen to background music on Firefox, for the same 'conflict of default player issue' as Mamagoo stated in a previous posting. I also
prefer WMP to the other 'more aggressive' options.

I accessed the page with my IE 6.0 browser and the music played ok.

BTW, I remember visiting that page on other occasions, some months ago,
and it looked basically the same as it does now. So, something must have happened 'between then and now' to bring up these current issues.

I don't use the 'Embed code' for my BG sounds, although, CW once explained to me, that the standard code i.e. <bgsound src="xxxx.mid"> will only work in IE. I guess that I'm not too worried about that, since 'alternate' browsers only have about 10% of the market to date, and the background music is not really essential to the enjoyment of the page content.

Saturday, 4 February 2006 - 8:30 AM EST

Name: tom


Here is a suggestion for solving the 'stack overflow'
Go to URL:
and look at the 'previous dates' source codes for URL:
in order to compare with the present HTML code. This may turn up the problem [although JAVASCRIPT APPENDED BY WAYBACK MACHINE]

Just a thought.....

Saturday, 4 February 2006 - 10:40 AM EST

Name: mamagoo

hi tom,
the standard for early versions of IE before IE6 only recognized the bg sound.
I have a midi tunes page that I offer on my site. I remember using the crescendo player and recommending that in the early days, now that was a just a midi player and it was just for use on the internet as a plugin for IE and Netscape and it was very limited, but back in those days midi and wav files were all there was. now look at we do!
and use of the crescendo player that was free but a licensed one was available(which I did because at the time it was the best for me. and it pluged in to both IE and Netscape and that was a plus....that's why I'm spoiled and so set on one player for all....LOL

I finally found this site again, I had it in favorites and lost it but it does explain things
quote from there:

"The only option being offered by the Netscape Plugins page is the Apple "QuickTime" application. The main drawback for Netscape users is that "QuickTime" will take over and dominate the Plugins folder. If you previously used "Crescendo", the minute you installed "QuickTime" Crescendo would no longer work.
Even if you delete the "QuckTime" entries in Plugins, they will be re-installed automatically as long as you have the QuickTime application on your system!! This will also block Windows Media Player from being used as your default on-line MIDI player..Only way to get rid of it is to Uninstall. If you do not uninstall QuickTime the following page on setting up Windows Media Player will not apply."

this is the main page of that site:

did you know that all windows comes still comes with the mplayer2? it's a smaller version of the full media player go to Start-Run type in mplayer2.exe
I also downloaded a free version of mplayer2. the other day at sourceforge site, and I like the bit of advance features it has...

I always planned to do a site explaining the uses of computer defaults and browsers plug-ins but never got around to it.... maybe this will get me going but hey that midistudio site did a good job explaining it...

I am using MedialPlayer10 now on one of my machines and MediaPlayer9 on the other but I still use mplayer2 as default mid and wav player cause I don't want the big one to open just for a midi or a wav.....LOL
but like I said computers need all types of players anymore and there are plenty of them out there! crescendo life update has ceased now but I think there is a version that can still be downloaded, but I think I will pass on that LOL.


Saturday, 4 February 2006 - 11:05 AM EST

Name: tom

Hi CW,

RE: "try to find some info on recent trends"

Here are some pretty reliable stats from 2005 for a group of URLs under my administration:

Browsers % of total
1. Internet Explorer 71,982 83.84
2. FireFox 8,457 9.85
3. Safari 1,981 2.31
4. Netscape 1,263 1.47
5. Mozilla 1,152 1.34
6. Opera 942 1.10
7. Konqueror 43 0.05
8. Unknown 33 0.04
9. Teleport Pro 2 0.00
10. IBrowse 1 0.00
Total: > 85,856 100.00%

So, we can see that IE is till 'holding it's own', with 84&


RE: "So using bgsound= exclusively is now an accessibility issue- whether you want to share the net with all who wish to use it, as intended in the ideals of the W3C"

Comment: I agree wholeheartedly. I will be doing a linkcheck soon on all my
URLs, so maybe I will remove the darn BG sound from the pages altogether.

Even though I have BG sound on most pages, I actually prefer the 'sounds of silence' myself. There is another issue to consider, namely the fact that
many surfers use their computers at work to access websites...and the BG sound is 'not what they are looking for'...since it will only bring attention to the fact that they are 'goofing off'. :)

Saturday, 4 February 2006 - 11:17 AM EST

Name: tom

Hi Mamagoo,

It would be nice, of course, if the various web resources
would adopt a policy of standardization, which I believe
was the orignal intent of the inventor, Sir Tim Berners Lee.

For instance, I notice that when I attempt to click on an outside link on my ad-supported A/F pages, using my Firefox Browser, a Lycos pop-up ad comes up instead of the desired link. Once the cookie has been successfully lodged on my puter, then the original link may be accessed. This 'quirk' does not happen with IE.

As explained to CW [what happened to her posting?], I am seriously thinking of getting rid of background sounds altogether.....

Saturday, 4 February 2006 - 12:05 PM EST

Name: cw

bad hair day! reposted to a new thread after MUCH pain lol.

It doesn't hurt to add both the bgsound tag AND the embed code other than to add a little extra weight to pages needed for the extra code. Actually, using additional <object> tags to the embed code is recommended in the latest version of the W3C HTML standards.

I think the W3C suggestions (aka "standards") are beginning to take hold as new browsers are being written. I think most users have probably had it with the browsers wars and these "standards" will certainly help.

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