Saturday, 31 December 2005 - 4:00 PM EST

Every HTML file that you create and upload to your webshell may be accessed individually without 'going through the index page'.

For instance:

https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/index.html
https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/page1.html
https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/page2.html
https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/page3.html
etc etc etc

Each HTML file represents a distinct internet page,
which may or not be linked to the main page [index.html] of the site.

Allow me to take this opportunity to wish all the visitors to Angelfire Club Blog, a Very Happy, Healthy & Prosperous New Year 2006!

Saturday, 31 December 2005 - 8:57 PM EST

it depends on which plane you are paying for, if you are paying for more than just to lose the ads and a domain you can use sub-domains

they would be like this

http://fishes.documents.org
http://cars.documents.org

you don't have to pay for these
you can create subdomain from inside the domain manager.

Sunday, 1 January 2006 - 8:37 AM EST

You ask a question that requires a multi part answer, and somewhat confusing answers at that, so lets start from the beginning.

First things first- to build a new site create a new subdirectory for it at your account and upload the files for it there. Each site will require it's own subdirectory. Each site will need it's own index.html file to serve as the site's default home page. So the first page you will build for each subdirectory (site) will be index.html.

So say you build 2 new sites, one in a subdirectory called 'fishing' and another in a subdirectory called 'hunting'. Each of these sites needs it's own index.html page in it's subdirectory. The URLs to reach the new sites will be.....

https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/fishing
https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/hunting

and more confusing- if you have a domain name like mydomainname.org they can also be reached from these URLs as well....

http://mydomainname.org/hunting
http://mydomainname.org/fishing

and even more confusing and a little more trouble to set up would be to assign them as subdomains so they could be reached as dalleh suggested. You don't have to set up this last option but it may be available with some domain names or hosting packages so is worth mentioning. A subdomain of a domain name would have URLs that look like this....

http://fishing.mydomainname.org
http://hunting.mydomainname.org

so with a domain name that allows the use of subdomains, each of the new sites will have 3 different URLs that can be used to reach it.

For instance, these 3 URLs will all go to the same place- the index.html page you created for the fishing site and uploaded to your "fishing" subdirectory

https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/fishing
http://mydomainname.org/fishing
http://fishing.mydomainname.org

Again, each site must have it's own index.html page uploaded to it's own subdirectory.

There is another option if you've followed me so far and that is to purchase domain names for each new site you just built and have uploaded to your account. Say you want the fishing site to have a domain name like 'myfishingsite.org'. You purchase the domain name, then use the domain name management tools at the place you bought the name to assign this new name to the site located at
https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/fishing

Hope that wasn't too confusing :). Post back if you need more help or clarification.

Sunday, 1 January 2006 - 10:11 AM EST

Although I agree wholeheartedly with CW & Dalleh,
whose advice is always excellent; personally, I prefer
to avoid subdirectories altogether.

Let's say you wish to set up a 'fishing section' within
your existing site, you could just create pages as follows:
https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/fishing.html
https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/fishing2.html
https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/fishing3.html
etc etc etc

Any domain or sub-domain, either purchased outright, or one of the many ad-supported "free" redirection resources available on the net, can be easily directed to the fishing.html page, without the necessity of creating another index.html file, or confusing things with files stored in various sub-directories.

Ok, so I am a simpleton.......

Simple Simon met a pieman
Going to the fair;
Says Simple Simon to the pieman,
"Let me taste your ware."

Says the pieman to Simple Simon,
"Show me first your penny."
Says Simple Simon to the pieman,
"Indeed I have not any."

Sunday, 1 January 2006 - 10:29 AM EST

Uff dah!

First let me say thanks for all the help.

Now....

If I have this right I can go two routes.

1. Purchase another domain and use it to direct viewers to a page within my existing site that serves as an index page with links to additional pages.

2. Upgrade my membership to include subdomains and then create subdomain names to direct viewers to the new subdirectories.

https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments.org/CassCounty
https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments.org/CrowWingCounty

or if possible

put the county name before the mn3/dnrdocuments.org

Am I close to understanding this?

I have about 350 photos I want to display and will probably shoot another 300-500 when the snow melts.

Sunday, 1 January 2006 - 11:00 AM EST

Tom- although it can be done, a domain name should never be pointed to a specific page. It should always be pointed to a folder. Doing otherwise can create more problems than it solves mostly to do with browsers finding the location of internal files such as images and page links referenced in your page code.

Sunday, 1 January 2006 - 1:19 PM EST

If I have this right I can go two routes.

1. Purchase another domain and use it to direct viewers to a page within my existing site that serves as an index page with links to additional pages.


- Sorta Yes and No. You don't direct to a page you direct to a folder (aka directory or subdirectory). The index page is then served by default when no specific page is specified in a URL "https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/CassCounty by default goes to "https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/CassCounty/index.html

That's why every 'site' needs an index.html page. A default home page is a standard so widely used by browsers, servers and surfers that it's existence is expected.

We are defining a "site" as the html files contained in a folder (aka directory or subdirectory). That is the best way to organize and separate 'sites' within the same web hosting account (AF) especially if the "sites" will each contain more than a couple of pages. Organizing sites and files at the start will save you headaches and time as you develop those sites in the future. To organize after the fact can be a nightmare. All files later moved or reorganized will need to have their new locations written into existing page file coding or browsers will not be able to locate anything you moved. But I digress lol

In the URL https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/CassCounty the folder called 'CassCounty' is set up to contain the Cass County 'site'. Subdirectories can be created from the web shell. You'll create/upload the page files for the CassCounty "site" to the CassCounty subdirectory (folder) you create at your AF mn3/dnrdocuments web account. Every folder set up as a 'site' needs a page inside it called index.html to serve as the default homepage. The index.html page is usually set up as the gateway to the "site" and should contain links to the other internal pages in that site, etc. so the site can be easily navigated.

2. Upgrade my membership to include subdomains and then create subdomain names to direct viewers to the new subdirectories.


-Depends. Subdomains aren't really necessary. They are more like fancy 'bells and whistles'. You can direct to subdirectories without the the use of a formal subdomain address by adding the subdirectory name to any URL (such as
https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/CassCounty) or if you own the domain name dnrdocuments.org then http://dnrdocuments.org/CassCounty/ can be used to reach the CassCounty subdirectory. It's voodoo :).

I sense some other confusion here. Don't let the 'subs' throw you. We are talking subdomains and subdirectories. They are not the same thing. One, a subdomain, is just a URL, a simple direction or name. The other, a subdirectory, is the actual container or folder that holds your site and it's pages. Though it, too, has a URL, it is more than just a name or direction. It is the true physical location of your site and it's files. The domain or subdomain name is just an alias. The confusion comes in because subdomains and subdirectories can be set up to be mutually inclusive. IOW a subdirectory could be set up as a subdomain and a subdomain could be set up to point to a subdirectory. But that isn't always true unless you set it up that way. A subdirectory could also have a domain name of it's own.... or not. Confusion about this comes easily and naturally. I'm confusing myself just writing this lol.

Do you have a domain name now? If yes, what is it? Please forgive me if you know this already but in the chance you might not then a domain name is a registered URL that can cost anywhere from less than $10 a year upwards depending on the registrar you buy it from. For your money you get to control what URL that domain name points to. A domain name might be something like dnrdocuments.org

If you bought the domain name dnrdocuments.org, then you could point it to your AF site at https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments. This then becomes a second URL to reach your main, existing AF site and either https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments or
http://dnrdocuments.org can be used to reach the same AF index.html page. When someone types in http://dnrdocuments.org, your AF index.html in your main or root directory is served to visitors.

If you already have a domain name to reach your main site at https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/ then you can reach the new CassCounty site (contained in it's own uniquely named folder) with a slight modification of the URL by adding the CassCounty subdirectory name to it. ex. http://dnrdocuments.org/CassCounty.

OR you can buy a second domain name like savecasscounty.org that will only be used for the Cass County site and direct it to your AF CassCounty subdirectory.

How's that for confusing??? :)

Sunday, 1 January 2006 - 4:11 PM EST

CW:

Of course, you are 100% correct, in saying that a domain
name should point to a folder, rather than to a simple
html page.

In the original posting, the blogger asked:
"Is it possible to have more than one site within a site?
How does a person allow others to see the sites without going through the index page?"

I think the confusion stems from the 'site within a site'
phrase. Sometimes folks mistakenly call 'webpages', sites.
I know that 'early on', in my site building experience, I made the same
error.

In other words, I feel that the blogger originally wished
to know, if surfers may access pages on the site, without the
necessity of going through the index page.

The blogger also wrote: "I would like to insert 2 sites on different topics within the original site but I don't want people to go through the index page first"

The question we must ask, is the following:

Is the blogger actually referring to 'sites' or 'webpages'?

Maybe a domain or sub-domain is not necessary at all.
The surfers may be directed to the specific page,
by using the Angelfire top-level directory URL, such as:
www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/casscounty.html
rather than:
www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/CassCounty/index.html
[I think also that capital letters would be best avoided in file names and URLs]

I guess that my main objection to using sub-directories, is the
fact that the files are not visible immediately in the webshell;
one must access the directory in question. There is also the possibilty
of uploading files to the wrong directory. Confusion also arises
with the URLs used in HTML files. The more complicated they are,
the greater possibility of error.

My knowledge is rudimentary, to say the least......

I am almost embarrassed to voice my opnions amongst such highly
skilled personages as CW & Dalleh :)

Sunday, 1 January 2006 - 5:46 PM EST

My domain name is http://mndnrdocuments.org

When I refer to site I'm thinking of an index page with many additional pages linked to that index page.

So if I have this correct I only need to make a new folder (directory or subdirectory?) for Cass County and one for Crow Wing county and then buy a domain name for each AND each domain name can be as simple as:

http://mndnrdocuments.org/casscounty or http://mndnrdocuments.org/crowwingcounty

Then in each folder (directory or subdirectory?) I make a new index page with links to the rest of the pages in that folder.

Can it really be this simple?

If I understand correctly my domain plan may allow me to swap the order of the mndnrdocuments/casscounty.org to casscounty/mndnrdocuments.org Correct?

Sunday, 1 January 2006 - 9:48 PM EST

John:

It looks like you have a very clear understanding
of what you wish to achieve on your multiple site
Angelfire Acoount.

RE: "If I understand correctly my domain plan may allow me to swap the order of the mndnrdocuments/casscounty.org to casscounty/mndnrdocuments.org Correct?"

I tried:

http://mndnrdocuments/casscounty.org/
and it brought me to:
https://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/Eastwood10703.html

Whereas, http://casscounty/mndnrdocuments.org/
leads to: http://www.casscounty.com/

Shouldn't both those Sub-domains lead to the same URL?

For instance, I am maintaining the following Sub-Domain:

http://wabanoong.has.it/

-and-

It also works this way:

http://has.it/wabanoong/

-but-

When I type:

http://wabanoong/has.it/ [foward slash after the wabanoong, instead of a dot], it brings me to the main Wabanoong website, http://wabanoong.ca/ which is hosted by another
domain altogether.

Confusion abounds!

Sunday, 1 January 2006 - 10:54 PM EST

I think it's time to cheer you up, John!

Once you get all your web issues sorted out, you still have
to deal with your local government....then, 'after all that'
is eventually put aside, you still have to deal with:
"Thousands of cormorants from the Dakotas and Canada get a bird's-eye view of most of Minnesota's fish farms."

A very interesting article here:

http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/seiche/2004/02/cormorant_conundrum.html

May I say, that the people of Minnesota must be a sturdy lot, in
order to valiantly face these formidable challenges.

Of course, your great state was the childhood home of Laura Ingalls
Wilder and Robert Zimmerman....that says a lot!

Sunday, 1 January 2006 - 11:13 PM EST

each folder have to have an index.html page ( Front page )
the main domain

http://www.mndnrdocuments.org/index.html

cass county ( sub folder casscounty )
http://www.mndnrdocuments.org/casscounty/index.html

crowwing county ( sub folder crowwingcounty )
http://www.mndnrdocuments.org/crowwingcounty/index.html

why do you need another domain

Monday, 2 January 2006 - 4:16 AM EST

....So if I have this correct I only need to make a new folder (directory or subdirectory?) for Cass County and one for Crow Wing county and then buy a domain name for each.....

It is really that simple :) and you are pretty much correct except you don't have to buy any extra domain names. Once you set up the new folders/subdirectories called 'casscounty' and crowwingcounty' and create an index.html page for each folder, then they can be reached by attaching the subdirectory name to your domain name URL....

http://mndnrdocuments.org/casscounty
http://mndnrdocuments.org/crowwingcounty

And yes, your domain name may let you swap order as you say but the URL will be in a slightly different form than what you wrote. It would look like this

http://casscounty.mndnrdocuments.org
http://crowwingcounty.mndnrdocuments.org

These are subdomain URLs and they are set up through your domain manager after you have built your site.

Monday, 2 January 2006 - 4:29 AM EST

Tom- never be embarrassed to voice your opinion about anything here. A lot of web building is making judgement calls for what works best for you. There is no single right way to do anything and I think others benefit when lots of options are discussed. In my own case, subdirectories is what works best for me because of the large number of assorted files I have uploaded. I tend to be an organizer of everything just so I can find things again lol.

Happy New Year!

Monday, 2 January 2006 - 5:18 PM EST

And a very Happy New Year to you too, CW!

I shouldn't be inflicting upon your good selves
my preference for top-level directory use.

Although my site contains also many files, they are easily accessed, due to the alphabetical nature of the display box,
containing the files. One simply uses the keyboard, to search the letters required.

On my own computer, I have alphabetical folders which contain all my 'created' files.

I've been a Hank Williams enthusiast for many years;
and 'ole Hank' used to tell his band members: "Keep it simple, boys, keep it simple".

I sort of like that philosophy.